Review of Lucky Orange Heatmaps, Recordings, & Chat with Danny Wajcman: One Last Tool 2.7
George: All right ladies and gentlemen, George B. Thomas here and you know every week I’m super excited. Well this week I’m really excited because we’re actually talking to a tool that we use here at The Sales Lion and folks, it is a great tool, but I don’t want to spoil the surprise, I will let Danny do that. Danny, why don’t you go ahead and tell people who you are, what you do and who you do it for.
Danny: Yeah absolutely. My name is Danny Wajcman, I’m the C.O.O and co-founder of a really amazing tech company called Lucky Orange. We’re out of the Midwest in America in Kansas City and really what Lucky Orange does, if I could summarize it in the most succinct way possible, but we aim to help website owners pull back what we call the “digital curtain” so they can have real transparency as far as what users are doing on their website. What actions are visitors doing that to might lead to conversion? Be it a sign-up, a purchase, a lead gen, but then importantly, what are these road blocks or stumbling blocks that might cause users friction and ultimately lead to their abandonment? Of course, the value to this information is that you can gain these insightful pictures of what people are doing and make meaningful long-term changes to your website.
George: Yeah, Danny, I like that, and that’s kind of where I want to start. I want us to think that we’re doing the fifty thousand foot view and typically when I ask tools this. You know “What is x, y, z tool?” They can kind of define one thing or two things. And because I know a little bit about the tool, this isn’t as easy for you guys because there are kind of tools inside the tools. So I want to just give you an opportunity, that when I ask you “What is Lucky Orange?” Like, how do you explain that to people who are looking at actually using the tool?
What Is Lucky Orange?
Danny: Great, really great question. So, it comes down to being this secret weapon or almost an arsenal of tools that every website owner wants to have. Maybe in the past they’ve worked with four, five or even six different vendors to get all of the technology we provide. So, to break it down by all the values you get from “Lucky Orange.” It starts with having a real time and historical stat counter of how people are on your site, what they’re doing, pages views, unique, some of those traditional analytics.
From there, we go into the ability to do live view, so this is real time co-browsing with visitors, watching as they navigate through the website. From there, all those visitors are being tracked and recorded. So think about it like a DVR for your website. Where you can play back a movie of how people used your website. Everything from mouse location to scrolls and clicks. Even for mobile devices too, taps and other events.
From there, we move into the ability to have real-time dialogue with the users on your site. So we have chat built right into our platform where you can see the visitors screen and chat along, answer questions they might have about your products or services before they become lost and go back. We have a polling and survey mechanism so you can ask questions like “What’s preventing you from purchasing today?” Or “Did you know about our special sale? Enter your email address to get 20% off!”
We even have the conversion funnel view that takes a high level view and let’s you know how people stepped through your site and where they’re dropping off and not moving on and what are problem pages. We even have the form analytics feature, which will tell you what fields of your form might be the most repeated or which fields of your form are the most abandoned. So you can let you know how to reconstruct these forms to drive more conversions. All of this really bundled in to one easy to use platform and then from one other value, priced only at ten dollars a month.
George: Yeah, so, One Last Tool viewers and listeners. I want you to realize that was an arsenal of tools like, there’s just a bunch there, and what I like is the way that I like to explain this is if you really want to be able to spy on your visitors and watch what they’re doing and sometimes it’s horrible because you’re like “No, no, click right there, click right there!” And then you’re like, okay, we gotta re-design this thing. But, the good thing is you get to spy on what their doing. You get to engage with them. I love the live chat and the polls, you can just collect data really quickly and it’s easy, it’s intuitive. The thing I like about Lucky Orange too is when we first set it up it was like, “Oh, we’re set up? Well that was awesome.” So it’s very easy.
Now, let’s go ahead and dive in a couple of layers deeper into the onion if you will Danny, and you can get as nerdy or non nerdy as you want to on this one. But let’s try to explain to the One Last Tool viewers, and listeners like, “Holy mackerel! All of those tools.” How does Lucky Orange work?
How Does Lucky Orange Work?
And really once it’s live, you have your whole mission control ready to go in front of you. All your information is coming in. We store it so you don’t have to worry about it. Sometimes, you brought it up earlier. There can be concerns with tracking too much data or too much information. So that’s something I always like to mention is that we do a lot of things that, out of the box, you don’t have to worry about capturing sensitive or personal identifiable information. So when you’re watching these recordings on how people use your site and maybe have some secure pages, like a checkout page or submission page. You’re not going to be capturing credit cards information, social security information, personal addresses. We anonymize all that before it’s even sent to our system.
So one important thing I always like to do is mention that. But really as soon as it’s live, you’re getting this data and then the hardest part is saying, “Wow, I had no idea people were doing this.” You even mentioned it, the first time you watch a recording of someone using your website you want to like take your hand and reach it into the screen and say “No! You’re clicking on the wrong things.” And then you say, “Well, that user, they don’t know my website. They didn’t do it correctly.” And then you watch another one and you’re saying, “Well, that guy didn’t do it right either.” Because as website owners, we think there’s going to be a logical flow of how people use our website. They’ll come to a landing page; read about our value propositions; they’ll be informed and educated; they’ll click on our call to action and they’ll sign up or they’ll purchase, whatever it may be. And that just makes sense, right?
Until it doesn’t. And that’s what we really aim to do is show you why for those first time visitors, it didn’t make sense for them, but what are ways that we can learn from them and then communicate more effectively to the third to the fourth and the fifth visitor. And you’d be so surprised within the first day, these low hanging fruit of opportunities to make really impactful changes to help those ROI metrics.
George: Yeah, Danny I love this. For me, what Lucky Orange does, is allows me to assess the situation and then change. Assess the situation and then change. So if you are looking at your site and you’re honestly, no pun intended, you’re trying to squeeze all the juice out of it that you can, Lucky Orange will help you see that and be able to make those changes rapidly to your website.
I do want to go off the beaten path for one second. This isn’t one of our starter questions that I send over to you. But you mentioned that you get a dashboard and a dashboard is cool. But if you could take a couple of minutes and talk about the emails that get sent out when you’re a part of Lucky Orange as well because to me, when I first got the email of like, my stats and where they’re- I was like, “Ooh, that’s cool and refreshing.” Like a nice, cool glass of orange juice.
That pun was intended.
Danny: Oh thank you! Very juicy. So here’s what we’ll say right. We- like I mentioned earlier. We built this tool with any person in mind. Including the small business owner that does not have time to spend their day behind a computer, behind a dashboard. They may have a brick and mortar store that they’re also manning while trying to handle chats or run their business. So Lucky Orange isn’t the end of your business, it’s just an aid to help you run your business more effectively. So we know some days you don’t have time to log in to Lucky Orange. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t slices of information that aren’t really important to you. So we created a daily email report to help you get those tid-bits of “Hey, today’s stats are slightly lower than yesterday.” Or, “Today we had a few more conversions.”
And then we pinpoint “Why did we have these conversions increase?” Was it a certain source increase? Or your Facebook traffic increased.” Or maybe they came from a certain region in a certain time of day so we say, “You had more conversions between the hours of 1:00 pm and 3:00 pm central and a lot of them came from Los Angeles.” So, it just gives you tid-bits of information that might help you make more informed decisions but in a really quick and distinct format that doesn’t necessarily require you logging in every day.
George: Yeah, and so One Last Tool viewers and listeners, I want you to think about that. There was no Excel spreadsheet. It was just simply an email and I’d loved the fact that it would say “You’re more active from one to three and so you might have you live chat open at that time.” And, by the way you should thank Dallas because that’s where most of your visitors came today. Like, it’s just- it like talks to you. Well ‘A’, we are normal human beings, but it’s an email bringing us data or ‘insights’ because we don’t want to use the word ‘analytics.’ In a way we’re like, “Oh I get it and it makes sense and there’s some extra items.” So I love, love, love that.
So, the next thing Danny is that we’ve talked about kind of, ranges and we’ve said ‘you’ and ‘people’ but we never really pinpointed who is a best fit for Lucky Orange so I have to ask that. So when you guys are talking about ‘personas’ or, ‘target markets,’ like who really is a best fit for Lucky Orange?
Who is the best fit for Lucky Orange?
Danny: Really great question. We’ll take it from a high level down to individual actual roles within an organization, because there’s a lot of people that can relate to. So, we kind of internally say there are three metrics that can allow someone to be a successful Lucky Orange customer. The first is that they have a website. Of course, it makes sense. The second one is they monetize their website so, that could be a direct response in terms of e-commerce where’s there is actually selling a good or service. It could be in lead generation or it can be a content website where you’re trying to grow your readership or getting them to click on more and more articles so increasing those time on sites.
But in any case, you are monetizing your website and then third qualification is that you want better performance from it. You’re getting two leads a day and you want to grow to three, four, five. There’s a few people out there that have websites that do decent traffic and they kind of just leave it on auto-pilot. They’ll never see value in looking at tools, but if you’re a website owner and you’re getting traffic and you’re monetizing and you know you can do better than Lucky Orange can work for you. Now, if you want to get into specifics; e-commerce certainly works great because you can track how many sales that I had and what products are they looking at and how are they interacting with my checkout pages. Lead generation is a really great example too because when you’re looking at those forms you can see, which field of the form is most abandoned and you can make tweaks to those.
Audience development. You can look at a thing called “Scroll Depth Heat Map.” I don’t even think I’ve talked about Heat Maps earlier but it’s built right into it into the very dynamic. You can see how far or down to most people scroll. And your “Call To Action” above or below those effective fold lines. Those are some, you know, types of businesses that work. But even drilling deeper within an organization. One thing we really try to preach is not just your company adopts Lucky Orange but it’s coached and trained across different organizations within your company. So, when we talk about the different departments that might use it, customer service will adopt Lucky Orange to use to chat the visitors on the website and answer their questions and growing those sales immediately. Web design will use it to see how people flow through the website and are there any errors that start occurring.
Marketing departments will use Lucky Orange so they can evaluate, which sources are drawing the most conversions and they can adjust their media buys. Sometimes ROI isn’t just about buying more from a certain area but also NOT buying from a certain traffic source. For a good example is often times we see people who might buy a lot of Facebook traffic and it brings a lot of mobile visitors but they may not have the really great mobile optimized sites so they’re drawing a lot of that mobile traffic that doesn’t convert well. So it just allows you to make these more informed decisions. Even down to technical teams, where they need to code something differently because they saw in a visitor recording, a lot of bugs.
So, from a high level down, you can see really see how it can be deployed across an organization.
George: Yo, One Last Tool viewers and listeners. I just need to say a couple of things about that segment. First of all, you should probably rewind it and watch it again because that was incredible. But here’s the thing. If you’re watching this or listening to this right now and you have a website that is on autopilot. Really? I don’t think so. That’s not even good. You shouldn’t be doing that. But yes, if you were paying attention. Danny snuck another tool into the set of tools that he originally said was only ten dollars a month AND if you were really paying attention, he said this is also a tool that your entire company could use. This isn’t like an Adobe, you know, monthly subscription that only your designers and developers use. It’s not like a help scout that only your service can use. Like this tool can be used across your entire company and we’re talking about ten dollars a month.
So, okay let’s dig a little bit deeper. I’m getting excited Danny. This is good stuff.
Danny: Let’s go down that path.
George: Yeah, this is good stuff. So, if you have to define one or two of the major problems that Lucky Orange is helping business solve. What would those one or two things be?
What major problems does Lucky Orange solve?
Danny: I’ll tell you in an anecdotal format how we most see it, right? Somebody comes to us and they say, “Hey I’m just about to launch my first site.” Or, “I launched my site and yesterday a hundred visitors came to my website and one person converted. Signed up or purchased. So, I changed my ‘Call to Action’ to green and I put some cool animation on the site and then another hundred visitors came to my website and I still only got one conversion.” So, we help answer that question, why? Why did that one person convert but also importantly, what the other ninety-nine people do? How far did they get into this funnel that but, what did they run into that led to maybe led them to be confused; not find the information they’re looking for and abandon this site. And we try to do it in a visual format. Understanding here might be road blocks and showing you exactly what they did.
So the root of it is giving you easy to identify in digestible information so that way you can feel more confident in making changes. And to go back to your point. Websites can not be on autopilot. They’re almost like a living organism where you make some changes today and then evaluate them and then you make more changes. But one of the really great things about Lucky Orange is that, if you make a change on 9:00 a.m. on Monday, by 9:05 a.m. on Monday you can watch people interact with that new change. We’re not talking about downloading Google Analytic Docs where you are in Excel looking at how my time on site improved or how my average pages. It doesn’t tell you the information you need, which is the middle chunk of that story. Not where they always where they came from and why did they abandon it but what they did in between. Not how they progressed through the site but how did I lose them.
George: Absolutely love this. Okay so on this next question. We kind of let the cat out of the bag. Although, I think there’s a little bit more to the pricing structure like our default “Hey, ten dollars a month.” So, I am going to ask the questions so if we can dig deeper, if maybe there’s different scenarios where people would may be pay more or something like that we can get that answered for the One Last Tool viewers. So with that said, Danny. How much is does Lucky Orange cost?
How much does Lucky Orange cost?
Danny: Great, great question. So the truth is every tool we described is available are included at ten dollars a month. How are plans continue to range in tier would be as you would maybe need more websites to track so maybe you’re an agency or a client that manages a lot of different brands. So we have packages that allow you track more sites. Or if you have a site that has a lot more volume than maybe we would allow maybe more page views and so our plans would scale with your needs associated with that. So, it’s really based upon the number of websites you might want to track or page views. But of course as we scale the discounts’ kind of compound in terms your cost per site, cost per page views. So as an example, if you get one site for ten dollars, you get three sites for twenty dollars, and more page views too.
George: Now Danny. The one thing I want to hit on that I didn’t hear there and I’m curious. Is that if we want to integrate with anything. So like thing that made me kind of look at you guys was that we’re big HubSpot users at The Sales Lion and all of a sudden there was a HubSpot integration. I’m like, “hmm, what’s this thing called Lucky Orange? And so, is there a price in that or how does that work. Maybe talk about that for a little bit.
Danny: Internally and as an organization is, that what we believe what we provide in Lucky Orange is useful, valuable but we know that it’s one component of your digital marketing strategy. Content will be part of it, PPC and ad buying and all that. And all that requires budget. And if we cannibalize more of your budget. You won’t effectively make these changes including new web development. So that’s why we believe in trying to provide as much value add on as possible.
Like when we launch a new integration, like we did recently with HubSpot. Everyone has been incredible to work with. So what we did with that and if you’re a HubSpot user and a Lucky Orange user. In your HubSpot timeline, you will now see Lucky Orange Events. So instead of just seeing a lead, you’ll see “Oh, click here to play the visitors recording of that lead,” or, “Click here to generate a heat map of where this visitor interacted with.”
To provide you with more information maybe before you call that lead or market to future leads. But again, going to back to the value, we do not charge for any integration. It’s all included. And what that goes back to is kind of our holistic point of view to continue to provide more value.
George: Yeah. And I did that on purpose. If you’re a Hubcast listener and you’re watching this or just a HubSpot user. I want you to hear a couple of things. ‘A’ no additional cost for the integration and ‘B’ being able to see Lucky Orange events right in your contact record, inside of HubSpot. I mean c’mon, it doesn’t get any better than that so Danny, we’re going to play interview volleyball for a second. And what I’m going to do is I’m going to ask this question and it’s me setting up the ball. And then I’m going to ask a second question and that’s when you’re going to spike it. So the set question here is who, and I think there are some actually I could name a couple. I’m interested to see how you answer this. Who are Lucky Orange’s competitors?
Who are Lucky Orange’s competitors?
Danny: So say from a high level view, and we can go deeper if you want. But from a high level view, we’re talking about companies that are in the heat map space, that do visitor recordings, that do chat. These are all companies that would be considered competitors. The major differentiators between us and a lot of those competitors would be- obviously, you would know of some. They would be companies like, Click Tail, Crazy Egg, Hot Jar, Mouse Flow, Olark for chat, Qualaroo for polls. The major differentiators for Lucky Orange is that, for starters, really important thing is when you’re trying to optimize a site is your trying to optimize a site is that you’re getting a true picture of user interactions. It is why even on our lowest plan we do not sample your data.
As we get to bigger plans and if it’s something that you are interested in, we can. But imagine you are trying to build a puzzle and the puzzle will show you, by the time your all done putting the pieces together, this is what users do on my site. But every time you place a piece of that puzzle, I’m going to take five pieces away. I may take six pieces away. But I’m going to take pieces away from your puzzle. Well, these are different user interactions. And in time, you may be able to assemble this puzzle but it’s going to take you longer and it may not be as clear.
So we really believe having unsampled data is a huge component of it. Second of all, we know that optimizations are a long term gain. But sometimes you need to speak with users before they leave the site and have that real time dialog. Which is why we built chat right into our system so that’s a huge component of what differentiates us. Then from a product standpoint, I think that a lot of the people that tried to enter this space, have been quick to try to say “Oh, what company is doing this. We need to build it as minimal and viable as possible and just test to see how it goes.”
We’ve really been around long enough that we are now able to step back and say, “All right, are websites changing? Are trends changing? Do we need to provide more value in the tool that we have out there?” So a perfect example is what we’ve done with heat mapping. So by now a lot of people have heard about heat maps where you take an image of any page of your site and you overlay data of here’s where people click the most and here’s how people read the site and here’s how far down people scroll. And that was fine for a while. But websites are changing. We now have hover over content and drop down and on mobile devices we have those little hamburger menus. There was no way to see any of this with a static image. So we really built the industry first dynamic heat map that allows you to interact with your website in real time while having data laid over on top of that. So we’re talking about you interacting and clicking on a drop down menu and then seeing click data populate on top of it.
Even carousels and dynamic form content that expands. You interact with the site and you’re going to get click, move, scroll data, even mobile devices. And on top of that, we allowed you to segment that data. SO you could say, “if this is where every body clicks on my site, where do the people who convert click?” Or, how far down to the people who don’t scroll. So you’re getting real insights in the browser while doing it. So, I guess the long answer to your question. We’ll call it the worlds slowest spiking of a volley ball if you will.
A price standpoint. A feature set standpoint. And then how we feel on how the product should do in terms of value and not rushing to just create product for products but products that create value. And then finally, I always like to give a plug to our team. Incredible, incredible people. We are so methodical about the people we bring on. Both from a cultural standpoint; making sure that they blend with our culture. But then how intelligent they are; how great they are with support. We have really amazing support staff so if you ever call us because we are available by phone. Available by chat. The content we put out, the technology we put out, a really tremendous team behind us.
George: Yeah, I will totally agree with that. And let me just say that not only, did you look at the ball when I set it but if you weren’t wearing a head set I would tell you to drop the mic, but don’t drop the mic because that was an incredible answer on what we were looking for. What makes Lucky Orange better than the competitors. So, heres the thing. As I’ve traveled the inter-webs, Danny. I’ve noticed there’s two types of people. There’s people that are tech savvy and they just get it. And then well, there’s those people that not so much. And I’m curious. When somebody gets into Lucky Orange the tool, what are some possible problems that they might run into and what do you have in place to help them though that?
What problems might a Lucky Orange user run into?
Danny: Yeah, really great question. There are two people things people will often say. And they’ll come at it from two different angles but we help them identify them when they’re going down a certain pathway. The first is to use an analogy. Because the data is so robust and it can be micro and granular as I want it to be. At times, people will focus on the trees instead of seeing the forest. Why are these few users doing these certain interactions and how can I correct it? What they should be saying is are a lot of people doing it and why are these a lot of people? Again, people can dive deep into the data and that minor micro focus can take away from the big picture, so we try to aggregate that and coach them and provide really great documentation on how to see the big picture and how to identify these trends.
And the other part of it is something that I mentioned earlier is I think the- when people adopt new technology, not deploying it across departments. And a lot of what I said earlier still holds true but if you are a larger organization that has different accounting with budgets and who’s budget it goes under allows many teams to adopt a technology and take that budget and deploy it across many divisions. So one of the worst things that happens is somebody gets an account and it’s used by just one or two people.
All of our plans come with multiple operators built in so that way you can train the appropriate staff and we are always happy to do it. To train multiple different teams on how to use the different platform because the data is there and it’s so visual. And the way I might see and interpret something might be slightly different than the way you, George, might look at it. But if we have that dialogue we’ll come to a very clear picture of how to move forward and two inputs work better than one.
George: Yeah, absolutely. Danny, this has been an incredible interview. I want to thank you for taking time to do this. I’ve one last question and that is, where can people find out more about Lucky Orange and if they want to connect with you. Heck, maybe there getting a set of tools for ten bucks. Maybe they want to buy you a steak or something. Where do you want to direct these folks?
Where can people learn more about Lucky Orange?
Danny: Really great. Okay so first, everything we’ve talked about is available on our website. We are in a lot of different directories. You can find apps of us somewhere if you’re building your website in other locations. On Twitter, we’re just @LuckyOrange. But, we really do mean it, and we say it all the time. We try to be so accessible. Even if you’re just inquiring so I would even throw out our phone number 913-735-9032. We are not afraid to pick up the phone and speak with you. We have chat on our website, which I’m often on just because I like to keep my ear to the ground and speak with people and hear the feedback.
Most of our technology development has come from users saying really cool, it would be really better if; and we love hearing that. That’s why we build things like our integrations with HubSpot. So many people have said, “We would love this information in HubSpot.” So we want your feedback. We want to speak with you. Even if you go with a different vendor, tell us why you did because we are going to continue to perfect it. So we really do encourage you reaching out and hearing about what we have more to offer.
George: Love it. Danny this has been great. One Last Tool viewers and listeners this is how we do it. No fuss, no mess, no fluff. Just great tools. And I will tell you, out of all the interviews that I’ve done this is the first phone number you will find in the article below us. SO until next time folks, go grab that one last tool and do great business.
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